Human Wise

Ep33: Navigating Leadership in Turbulent Times with Sophie Turner

• Helen Wada • Season 3 • Episode 33

Share episode

Welcome to Human Wise, the podcast that explores the commercial advantage of being human at work.

With host Helen Wada, executive coach and founder of The Human Advantage, each episode will explore what being human at work looks like across a wide range of industries, from people in senior management to those on the ground.

Unlock the secrets to thriving in today's complex work environments with insights into human-centered leadership. In this enlightening episode, we join Sophie Turner, a partner development coach and PhD candidate, as she delves into the evolving dynamics of professional partnerships and the imperative of authentic leadership. Discover why Sophie believes that genuine human connection and understanding one's true self are pivotal in navigating the challenges of modern workplaces.

We tackle the impact of commercial pressures on leadership, the essential fuel for replenishment, and the often-overlooked necessity of stepping out of comfort zones. Sophie shares transformative insights from her research on high-achieving professionals and the psychology behind preventing burnout in uncertain times. Additionally, explore actionable steps that both individuals and leaders can adopt to foster human-centric workplaces that lead to tangible commercial success.

Whether you're an aspiring leader, HR professional, or anyone keen on enhancing workplace dynamics, this episode offers a thoughtful exploration of how authenticity at work can drive both personal and organizational growth. Don’t miss this chance to redefine success through a human-centric lens—your professional trajectory could depend on it!

Topics Discussed:

  • Human-centered leadership skills
  • Challenges in professional partnerships
  • Importance of human connection
  • Authenticity in workplace culture
  • Overcoming fear of rejection

Click here to view the extended shownotes

Further links to follow:

Helen Wada: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/helen-wada

The Human Advantage: https://www.thehumanadvantage.co.uk/

Ep33: Navigating Leadership in Turbulent Times with Sophie Turner- Human Wise Podcast [00:00:00] 

Introduction and Guest Welcome

Helen Wada: Hello and welcome to another episode of Human Wise. I am absolutely delighted to have this fabulous lady with me today. A fellow coach, fellow leader who is passionate about professional services and our love of coaching and actually the development of leaders has brought us together. She's a partner development coach at a global law firm and works with leaders.

To help them through this complex and turbulent times that we are all operating in. And so human wise and the conversations that we are having here, I thought she was absolutely perfect guest to have a conversation with. And so really delighted to have you on the show, Sophie. Not only are you a wonderful human being, a fabulous coach, but actually you are in the middle of a PhD.

Coming from somebody that's writing a book, I know how hard it is and the discipline that you need to work through that. Your PhD is around how professional partnerships and are equipping partners [00:01:00] with the leadership skills to deal with the complex and uncertain environments that we're living in, which I think is absolutely fantastic.

'

Human-Centered Leadership

Helen Wada: cause I think, you know, from where I am coming from where the human advantage was born, there's two things. There's the commercial pressures. Going out, winning more work and being with your clients, but also that human-centered leadership piece. And how do we navigate the maze that we're operating in today and supporting our teams to be their true, authentic selves.

And so no one better to have you on the show and welcome Sophie.

Sophie Turner: Well, thank you. I am delighted to be here. Really looking forward to the conversation and it's such a joy to meet someone who is Yeah, completely sort of sharing where my own heart is, my own passion. I. 

Personal Insights and Energy Sources

Helen Wada: Oh, so before we get into the nitty gritty of law firms and partnerships and commercial conversations, tell us a little bit more about Sophie. Who are you? Who are you? How do your friends and family describe [00:02:00] you?

Sophie Turner: Oh, okay. Um, I would say always. Um, being regarded as someone probably, whether with my friends or in work as lifting something up and saying, could we do this a different way? Mm.

Um, Do we have to do it the traditional way? So that sort of, yes, turning something, anticipating What? might be happening, how we could use things, challenging thinking.

Being challenging, people would say, provocative to say, Well, how about this? Um, Yeah. But also I think full of ideas um, for people. Hopefully, you know, that sort of inspiring. Let's try. This kind of who I am. I would say I. What else? You know, can I tell you? 

Helen Wada: What? Well, when you're not researching and you're not writing, what are you up to at the 

Sophie Turner: Oh God. Well, I suppose I would say the country, the countryside. [00:03:00] So my energy my thinking, my to, you know, how I restore is very much in the countryside, whether that's Woods, mountains, hills. Yeah.

absolutely. Where I recuperate and get get my thinking back. So that would be it. And probably with my dog, I have a Jack called Hector, who I am, you know, is a big sort of companion, but I think that's it mainly.

And yes. 

Helen Wada: I think that's, I think that's lovely. I think, you know, and it's really interesting to hear, you know, what's, where do we get our energy from? 'cause I'm sure we'll cover that in our conversation today. You know, I also get my energy from that side, I get my energy from my friends, from my family. I get my energy from conversation.

Mindfulness and Being Present

Helen Wada: And I think one of the things as we go on to talk about what does it mean to be human at work and dealing with these complex and uncertain times is. Actually taking a step back to understand how we can replenish our souls, where we [00:04:00] can rejuvenate. Because at work it's, it can be pretty tough out there.

Sophie Turner: Well, I mean, exactly. And I mean, thank you. I mean, the other thing to say, which is sort of a link here is that you will also find me doing meditation, mindfulness, you know, I follow a yoga you know, pattern, and we're talking about being authentic and. Trusting who you are and what you want to offer, which is something I think is very much about the human side of work.

Then I find that and retain it through my meditation.

Helen Wada: I think that's a fabulous and fascinating. I must admit I struggle even as a coach having coached for 10, 12 years. Some of the meditation I find harder than others. But actually I found my own way to dip into being present. What does that mean for me? And I think [00:05:00] sometimes we can overcomplicate it because being mindful doesn't mean to be doing, you know, you're doing the full practice, but you are finding techniques that are important for you and what's right for you and your world.

And can be done inside. It can be done outside, it can even be done behind a computer before you jump onto a teams meeting or something like that. It's just that centering. Of who you are and where you are at. Diving in, you know, we're already starting to get into some of the nitty gritty, but that humanity at work, I love asking that question at the top of our conversations, but what does being human at work mean to you?

Sophie?

Sophie Turner: I think it is. Being authentic, and that might sound quite obvious, but I think a lot of us either feel we can't be, or that those people responsible for us, [00:06:00] our bosses, leaders, et cetera, are not authentic with us. And for me it always starts with self. And it, you know, and it's a multi, it's a sort of a multifaceted thing here, but I think well central and key to Buddhism is this trust in self, um, acknowledgement and acceptance. And I think, I think it starts with that. So it's. Learning, you know, how can we encourage people, how can we give people support in building up their own self-trust, if you like, to be authentic. But alongside, and of course where I'm coming at it, you know, in looking at leadership, how can we enable support leaders to be more. Authentic in their relationships. And that's sort of another pillar for me of being human at work. It's having proper [00:07:00] relationships. And crikey, you know, you know, I was c I'm conscious for this talk. We could just go down that avenue because I think just the whole sitting behind the way we communicate now and I don't wanna sound like an old person is.

Often via a phone teams video. You know, my daughter tells me that her friends, you know, they communicate by phone. You don't actually meet up and sort of talk to each other unless you're quite sure. So I think relationships, the fact that, you know, this whole thing about working from home and hybrid working, I mean, that's a topic in itself, but if you bring them together with the fact that I think people are less, less confident, less certain, there's less trust you've got that sort of, Yeah.

that tension.

So it's relationships. And I mean, we've always known this, you know, this is, [00:08:00] this for me is, you know, it's a fundamental motivator around feeling that you are linked up and engaged and of value to someone who matters to you, and that they have heard you and seen you. And if I look at sort of my area professionals actually at all ages, but particularly the more junior ones are no longer buying the, you know, the follow the golden. Or the yellow brick road, I should say.

And it leads to partnership and status and always isn't that brilliant? And it'll be in about 10 years time. So that's all gone. And they don't, they've lost they've no interest in putting on the suits and having the lunches and all the stuff that went with that. So yeah, so in a way that has created, it's become more of a pressing need and more of a need.

We need to make effort with. 

Helen Wada: you, you are right that traditional model. For partnerships, whether it's law, whether it's accounting, it's consulting, wherever [00:09:00] it is, that traditional model is changing 

And it's being challenged in a way that you are right. People are looking for something different and I'm keen to go back to that point that you made.

Right, right at the beginning there around leaders have to show up authentically or, you know, and encourage others to be authentic. There's something in that that says. We are not there right now, or certainly we are not fully there. And I'm just curious with the research that you've done, you know, across a number of firms what you are seeing and what's stopping us.

'cause on the one hand it should be as well, you know, we just show up as who we are. But you and I both know from the wide variety of coaching work that we do that most challenges in organizations are often people related and cultural related.

Sophie Turner: it's, it's Almost like a, it's a contradiction. We've got contradictory circumstances going on, so if we go back pre. Let's say pre Brexit, [00:10:00] I would say most professional firms were having a very nice time. Thank you very much. Profitability levels were very good. And they could rely on the.

Culture of the organi of the firm culture, of the partnership. We are lawyers together. The sense of we are elite here in this profession. I mean, and this applies to other professions of course, and the camaraderie of working together. Going to have lunch together. Going for a drink together after you've been with a client was there.

And so there's one point then we bring into it. At the time, and I'll say rightly or wrongly, I'll put that out there first. Most partners, leaders could be themselves. It didn't occur to them to have to check their behavior. Now that in case some cases was not right and we needed to change it for [00:11:00] diversity and inclusion, but we've got a group who feel less able to be authentic and you then have to look, I think, and at the characters, at the temperament of I say professional people. Yes. You know, there were similar challenges you could say for surgeons, doctors for chemists, for scientists where you've got like intellectual, this is my profession, academic, and quite individualistic. Okay, 

Helen Wada: and you've been trained in your mees on 

what you knoW.

Sophie Turner: generalizing to make the point, but you know, my, you know, one of my colleagues who was a junior partner in the eighties tells me some incredible stories of what they got up to Yes.

and, but he would say it was a load of fun and everybody was just themselves, Sue.

Not that we want to go back to that, but they're less [00:12:00] innocent times that we're in now and no, whether it's on online, you know, internet crime, or it's health and safety, or it is all of the legislation. So when I say sterilized, maybe sanitized, it just means everybody is much more.

I need to be careful and I think that shouldn't make any difference to be, to say, okay, I'm going to turn up and be authentic. But I think for a group of people who maybe some of them aren't naturally people, they may struggle. 

You've then got, so we've got that factor, but then we've got the other contradiction is at the very time where we really need to be bringing our human self to engage with our juniors And you know, enable them to work at the best.

Helen Wada: And clients, Sophie, I mean, let's not for, you know, clients or stakeholders, it's not just with our teams it's with [00:13:00] everybody around us.

Sophie Turner: Absolutely. I think that, okay, so that's interesting point because I think these leaders have got less time. 

Helen Wada: Yes.

Sophie Turner: So at the very time they've gotta make more effort. 

Helen Wada: Yep. 

Sophie Turner: They've got less time because profit, to go back to my point, profitability levels are now much tighter than they were pre Brexit. 

So what gives the client doesn't give 

the home life in some cases, but mainly doesn't give.

So it's your people at work? 

Helen Wada: And thereby is an articulation of, you know, I sometimes say, and you know, as I'm writing this book and kicking off, why do we need the conversation of being more human at work? You know, why have I set up this podcast? Why am I, you know, in 2025. I would like to think as I'm hitting the 50 mark and a, you know, good 30 year career so far that I'm now here going, being hugely passionate about human leadership at work and you're [00:14:00] absolutely right is because it comes to the full, we'll talk about the importance of human connection in a moment, but it has to be linking to those commercial outcomes.

And for me, that's where the human advantage was born. What I saw, and I've spoken about this before, but in the world of sales, which I ended up in, I'd never thought that I would be in sales in a million years. I was a technical expert, private audit, and private equity in start, and then I was a consultant.

But then actually to grow a business, you need to be selling and naturally realizing that those to actually connect with customers, to connect with stakeholders are some of those human skills. That actually are equally applicable when we're trying to build human-centered leadership. And for me it was, and I know we've spoken about this before, it's that intertwinement of those skills, 

Sophie Turner: Yes. 

Helen Wada: rather than saying it's [00:15:00] one or the other, 

Actually we need to be thinking about how the human connection is put at the center.

Of growing our business, being more effective in conversations, being more efficient with our time. You know how many people have meetings and nothing comes out of it? How much wasted time are we seeing in office environments, whether you are on teams or in person. 

Sophie Turner: Now. Well, thank you. Music to my ears, because I think that is the nugget of where, you know, of the challenge. Again, my experiences a and from my day-to-day conversations And also the research that some senior professionals. Still don't get that. It is that what we're talking about is a key commercial imperative.

And they can see, you know, you talk about their clients, 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: but they don't see it with their own teams. [00:16:00] And you know, to use how you've described it, if the building relationships became the central bit. 

Helen Wada: Yes.

Sophie Turner: how you operate, whether it's clients or internally, you know, as I say, with your teams. But you are asking a group of people who that was never in their job description.

It was never something. And as I say it, it's not at all. For everyone. You know, I spoke to some of our partners who absolutely get that keeping their juniors happy and engaged and spending time with them was a commercial imperative and actually a time it managed their own time. And once a partner has got that, that actually you're saving yourself time in the long run by spending the.

Five minutes, 10 minutes over a a call or hopefully a cup of coffee that person will be much happier and go. And rather than, so you might, [00:17:00] so here's me leading onto the sort of the question of why because if you have a group of. Well, if you've got individuals in your team who don't feel that you understand them or are interested in them or have engaged with them then you are more likely to have higher sickness. That's the obvious one. Higher presenteeism, which I think is going on a lot at the moment. And they're doing the minimum. And this is a bunch of people who you want to be creative thinking in the best way, going the extra, spending the extra time to say what would be a really quality answer for the client. 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

it's just flu. It's just fluffy stuff. 

Sophie Turner: Fluffy stuff.

And dare I say, you know, oh, you know Trump, Mr.

Trump is saying what we all think. 

Helen Wada: Yeah it comes into that, the comfort zone piece, doesn't it? I mean, you and I, again, both work in the coaching space with people [00:18:00] stepping out of comfort of their comfort zone. How do you flex muscles? In a way that, you know, they're always there, but actually understanding, and for me, number one is awareness.

To help people understand why it's important, where it's important, what the situation is,  

So that you can then step out of your comfort zone and try different things because you know, again, putting that commercial angle on. What is going to make them more successful? Being more successful will be more connection.

We talk about importance of human connection. People don't buy, whether it's professional services, whether you are going in to buy a product, whether you are, you know, choosing a restaurant. You go somewhere where you feel welcome, where you feel warm, where you feel that you've got that trust and you're going to have an enjoyable experience.

That is what you are after. 

Sophie Turner: Yes. 

Helen Wada: And to do that, you have to be able to get under the skin [00:19:00] of who your customers are and that requires these human skills 

That you need to be human centered in the workplace.

Sophie Turner: Yeah. Yes, exactly. You know, the question, and maybe I suppose it's, it's a central one for, for my thesis, is why that isn't obvious to everyone. Now, my hypothesis is that it is actually, it's back to the lack of confidence. So as an individual, I don't feel confident doing that. I can do it with my clients because we're dealing about client work. 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: But I think to come back sort of more, you know, to this.

Well, I suppose the human side, you know, you could say that actually what we're doing with the coaching and what the coaches are doing is encouraging the senior people, the partners, the leaders, to bring more of a human side. [00:20:00] To the relationship with their teams in how they manage other people, in how they relate with colleagues in a way that will build trust.

So it does feel to me, and I suppose you could say, I would say that, but I, Yes.

I do think that sort of quietly behind the scenes, that's what the coaches are doing because there is this. You know, we are both saying and understand that's what builds strong relationships. That unless you start with yourself and say, how do I show up at work?

Helen Wada: Yes.

Sophie Turner: Am I authentic? Do I build trust? And if I not, why? What? What's going on? And what can I do about it? 

Helen Wada: Yes and I think it's fascinating you, you say that with a, you know. How do I show up? That's the H in my human frame, right? That is the H. Because there is something about we can only control who we are, 

We can try and influence others, and that comes into all the emotional piece as well. [00:21:00] But actually understanding who we are is number one.

And I think a lot of that's tied in with what you were talking about there is, you know, the limiting beliefs that each and every one of us have. In certain situations, what is holding us back? 

Sophie Turner: Yes. 

Helen Wada: And I think particularly with this sort of population where you're talking about experienced professionals, and I know this is some of the research that you've looked at, is the psychology of high achievers 

Sophie Turner: Yeah. 

Helen Wada: and the sort of the, what's drummed into us as what success has is, has looked like.

Sophie Turner: Yeah. 

Helen Wada: Is necessarily success now, but that requires reframing of these beliefs.

Sophie Turner: Yes.

Sophie Turner: exactly. And that's why it isn't as straightforward as this is how you need to do it. Get on and do it. And again, this is central to coaching. You know, we're looking at what is holding people back. And generally that is an EM emotional mindset reason. [00:22:00] And yes, for many high achievers and um. someone who's done a lot of work in this area, Laura Emon.

Um, she talks about the insecure high achiever. Um, and that really resonated for me because you've got that sort of double whammy and probably from school that's what they were and they got status and they got recognition and they got. A feeling of being okay by achieving and achieving probably in an academic way. Um, and maybe they weren't the most popular person. Some were, but maybe they weren't the ones who were sort of built the friendships necessarily, but it wasn't required. So when you are saying, oh, we want you to start. Exhibiting behaviors or skills that you, they probably don't feel so [00:23:00] competent in lack of self-belief, which is what comes up a lot in the coaching.

Then are you going to do it? If you are an, you know, competent sort of achiever, are you gonna start making yourself look a bit vulnerable? 

Helen Wada: It's that fear of rejection, isn't it? And I think the more high achieving we are, you know, and, and let's talk about business development. Let's go back into my world in terms of sales winning business anyway. You have to be out there in the market having lots of conversations.

Not everything comes through, but you need to be having them to be understanding what's going on, what might work, what's the opportunity. You might be successful in some, you may not win. Others actually are you keeping in touch with people? But there's that fear of being rejected and the more high achieving you are, the greater that fear of the falling low.

It's that story of if you don't try and you put something off and put something off, it becomes much bigger. [00:24:00] Sort of, you know, the rock is kind of 

growing as you roll it down the hill and it's getting another layer the longer you put it on. Actually, if you were to step over that small rock at the time and then you get confidence and it's like, oh, actually that's links a bit.

I can do that.

Sophie Turner: Yes, absolutely. And I think, you know, that is one of the purposes of coaching. but of course not all, all people do coaching. I think it's not so much well rejection, maybe it's re it's a state, it's the status thing. It's the intellectual status thing. And I do not want to look that I'm not up to the mark. I mean, I, I think this human again, you know, keeping with the sort of the human. The human side. I think the challenge is leaders recognizing that it's not an extension of woke, if you like to call it that, or [00:25:00] pc, which is what I get pushed back at me by partners. It's a reflection of the environment we're in now.

The sort of the business the society which has come about because of these circumstances, because of what people felt after Brexit, because we have wars, global political, you know, going on and this thing around hope. And there's also, Yeah.

hope. I think a lot of young people are not feeling that hope and they do not trust in official leadership.

If you say, whether it's politicians, whether it's, you know, you hear on the radio this morning that Israel is now reneging on, you know, the peace deal because you didn't do this and you did this. You know, if politicians act the way our friend in the US is, you know, they're like, well, what do I take?

What do I believe? [00:26:00] So there's that. So they need for certainty of a group of people are saying, well actually I'm not buying the Yes.

just work really hard till about 10 o'clock every night and in, in 10 years time, you'll be a partner and it'll all be good and you have your house. That's the pressing need to bring this human element in. In other words, rebuild, trust, rebuild a sense of purpose, and I can be valued in, into sort of the everyday well in, you know, my case professional workplace. I, and I see that some organizations. Outside the professional partnerships sphere are doing things, you know, in that way.

But, you know, if I want to look at it from, you know, the level of sickness and absence and mental health that's going [00:27:00] on, ma Matthew side was talking about this on one of his programs. Yeah.

You know, it's a, it's a. 

Future of Human-Centered Workplaces

Helen Wada: Yeah we need to 

Sophie Turner: suddenly all get really suddenly, I don't know, suddenly the world, the economies, global economies get suddenly really profitable and the wars stop and, 

Helen Wada: but the world is a changing, as you say it's increasingly uncertain. It's increasingly complex. And at the end of the day, we have human beings collaborating, connecting, working together. And through your research, you know, we've discussed some of the themes that have come up, but in terms of.

What we can do about this, you know? So where we're at, how we position this human centered approach in these commercial businesses? What are you seeing come through in terms of what actions we can all take to move forward?

Good question. I think there's, I think there's two. There's 2, 2, [00:28:00] 2 questions there, right? There's one, what can you do as an individual and that's wherever you are. And then I think the other side is as leaders in organizations, what do we need to be thinking about? I.

Sophie Turner: Thank you. Well, I think if we start with businesses I think I. A key thing to start going is start doing more of, I'm seeing it in a little bit, is equipping your leaders with the skills. And in fact, I would be starting from junior, I think then you change a mindset because if you know from when you're a baby, if I.

say a baby professional, that part of being a professional is that the relationship piece 

Helen Wada: Yes and actually I would go beyond, you know, I asked about businesses, but actually I would go beyond that. I think there is something, I was talking to somebody else the other day about the schools and what we're doing from an education. I mean, that's a whole nother conversation, but actually, I. What are we looking at from an educational perspective and [00:29:00] how we are equipping?

You know, it's not just about the math and the chemistry and the economics and the biology, whatever it is, it's about embedding, but yeah, absolutely.

Sophie Turner: That's interesting because my observation, and it's only my little observation that actually we are doing it in schools, and then when professionals are getting into the workplace, it's all a bit of a shock 

Helen Wada: Interesting. 

Sophie Turner: because, so we, you know, because they're thinking, oh yes. You know, the, all of the stuff that was there and how the teachers were being with me, and so I think it's at that ju Yeah.

When I come into the workplace, I'm doing the traineeship. 

Helen Wada: You almost knock, not having it knocked out of you. Having that authentic piece knocked out of you to be the person that the business wants to see, almost that to manage expectations.

Sophie Turner: yes. A little bit. I mean, yes. So I think, sorry to, so your question, so I think businesses, it's, it should be, you know, [00:30:00] put on the top of the agenda. 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: And seen as a commercial thing. I think for individuals. I think I go back to my Buddhism, Budd Disbeliefs, which is that you start with yourself and ask the question about how you are showing up and where and your values.

Well, it, so before where I show up. What actually is important to me? What do I bring? What's important to me? What do I give and what do I give that actually isn't helping? Is perhaps not sort of helping, you know? 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: So the fact that I think I'm the clown in the workplace is that really helping? 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: And then what do I want to do about it? 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: And this point about how can I, David White, who I'm a huge fan of 

Helen Wada: Yes.

Sophie Turner: writing, he talks about robust vulnerability. [00:31:00] 

Helen Wada: I love that term.

Sophie Turner: So how and again, it's something, you know, I try and live by, how am I getting over myself and saying, okay, so how could you be a bit braver here? Be robust, but you're being yourself. 

Helen Wada: Wonderful. 

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Helen Wada: And I'm conscious of time 'cause these conversations run and it's, we get to a point I'm like, goodness we could keep going for ages. I think there's so much, Sophie, for us to work towards here in terms of the world of work 

To becoming more human in what we do for ourselves, but for our teams and also our clients.

Because putting that commercial lens on this, for me is absolutely essential to us getting the investment to move the dial, to give people time, to give people space, to work out what are you not doing so that you can focus on some of these really human aspects. Actually, that's not a [00:32:00] bad place to be because the world is turning rapidly 

and sometimes we just need to pause and slow down a little bit.

Where we started this conversation 

Where we talked about that presence of persona almost.

Sophie Turner: Yes. And you know, ultimately I'm looking, I do look at this, you know, it is work and that's where I am. But I am looking at this from the broader sort of, I. Society focus. And as you say, the world is spinning and it's a, you know, a difficult time. Perhaps inevitably, but one, I think I'd sort of just sort of say that one of the key aims for me in my coaching is that.

I'm enabling or supporting the person I'm working with to be able to go home at the end of the day from doing their work and thinking, Yeah.

that was okay. I did okay and I feel pleased with what I [00:33:00] did, and they're not anxious and worried and torn and not sure they did. If we can be enabling that, so, and that does start with yourself. 

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Sophie Turner: That starting the day and then ending the day. Yeah.

Okay. I lived by how I would to be because as I say, you know, the level of sense of mental health or lack of and people, you know, quoting thre, I think Henry Thor Rowe, you know that living lives of quiet desperation. 

Helen Wada: Oh, and the statistics are, are really are really bad in some of the, you know.

Sophie Turner: So ultimately that's what sits behind. But I, you know, as I say, for very much try and keep, I also think it's hugely, it, there's a commercial imperative too which is sitting through the work, the research I've been doing. 

Helen Wada: Oh, fantastic. You're, sounds like the work that you're doing is amazing, Sophie. You very much need [00:34:00] it. Where we're at today, and 

just as we close out, I always like to ask the guests sort of one, you know, we've covered a lot of topics here. We've covered, you know, how people show up. We've covered commerciality, we've covered, you know, the psychology of experts.

What sort of the one takeaway that you would offer the listeners as they're closing out the, listening to this and the other is. A good coach loves a good question. You know that as well as I do. So what's the one question that you would ask listeners to reflect on as they think about the conversation that they've just heard between you and I?

Sophie Turner: Thank you. I?

think it, it's this, the answer for both sides of that, I think it is.

How are you showing up? You know, and is it how you want to? Is it how you want to show up? How are you showing up? Is it what you want? What would you like to do about it?[00:35:00] 

Helen Wada: I love that. Brilliant. And the fact that it fits neatly into to what I talk about with the human advantage is even better. It just shows how aligned and you know, it's, it is really heartwarming to find a like-minded individual that, you know, you clearly see both sides and look forward to keeping the conversations going 

Sophie Turner: Thank you. Really enjoyed talking to you, Helen. Thank you 

Helen Wada: No, my pleasure. Great to have you on the show. Have a good afternoon. 

Sophie Turner: Yes, you too. 

Helen Wada: All the best. Take care. 

Sophie Turner: Bye. Bye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Helen Wada

Host