Human Wise

Ep23: Embracing Self-Awareness and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome with Jane Greenman

• Helen Wada • Season 2 • Episode 23

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Welcome to Human Wise, the podcast that explores the commercial advantage of being human at work.

With host Helen Wada, executive coach and founder of The Human Advantage, each episode will explore what being human at work looks like across a wide range of industries, from people in senior management to those on the ground.

Are you ready to unlock your full potential through the power of self-awareness and overcoming your imposter syndrome? In this thought-provoking episode of the Human Wise Podcast, Helen Wada sits down with Jane Greenman, a managing director at Thales and an expert in emotional intelligence, to discuss how tuning into both internal and external signals can transform your personal and professional life. Jane shares her journey through the tech industry, valuable insights on overcoming imposter syndrome, and the importance of authenticity and empathy in leadership.

We delve into the idea of creating safe work environments that foster psychological safety and innovation. Jane sheds light on how self-awareness and understanding blind spots can boost confidence and clarify life’s direction. She also challenges listeners with a reflective question: What will you do this year to step out of your comfort zone and achieve personal growth?

From the impact of energy and presence in communication to the nuances of client negotiations, this episode is packed with actionable tips and inspiring stories. Whether you’re looking to enhance your leadership skills, build better relationships, or simply grow as an individual, this episode offers a wealth of wisdom and practical advice. 

Topics Discussed:

  • Holistic listening and self-awareness
  • Authenticity in male-dominated industries
  • Psychological safety in the workplace
  • Neurolinguistic programming for confidence
  • Understanding deeper client needs

View Extended Shownotes here:

About Jane Greenman

Self-motivated Executive Leader with over 25 years’ experience in Industry and Defence sectors; Aerospace, Security, Telecoms, Transportation and Space. Passionate interest in technology to explore innovative ways of delivering sustainable growth for industry and value-driven products and services for customers. Currently studying for Executive Coach ILM7 level, enabling individuals and teams to reach their full potential.

Further links to follow:

Helen Wada: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/helen-wada

The Human Advantage: https://www.thehumanadvantage.co.uk/

Ep23: Embracing Self-Awareness and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome with Jane Greenman​[00:00:00] 

 

Introduction and Guest Welcome

Helen Wada: Hello, and welcome to another episode of human wise early in January in 2025. I am absolutely delighted to have Jane Greeman with me today. Jane is a managing director at TALIS, a global technology company focusing on aerospace, aerospace defense, cyber and digital. Goodness. That was a mouthful this time of the afternoon.

Jane and I have known each other for a while now. She's been at TALIS since. [00:01:00] 2006. Feels like a long time ago. Now Jane, doesn't but actually what I love about Jane is her, her humor, her humility, and the way that she has reinvented herself and taken on a number of leadership roles at Tallis.

She currently manages a team of over 250 people deals with our major clients and, and also the teams on the ground, both in the UK and, and globally. Jane.

Helen Wada Video: So

Helen Wada: I'm absolutely delighted to have you on the podcast today. 

Jane Greeman's Career Journey

Helen Wada: Um, I know the listeners are keen to, to listen to those that have been there before them, you know, in terms of what it's meant to be, not just a senior female leader, but also one that is operating in probably quite a traditional male environment.

You know, we cover some of that and your experience as well as what it's meant to be on the front line and leading commercial conversations, how you've been able to connect with the customers and, and those challenging conversations that you face. So delighted to have you here [00:02:00] today. And welcome to the podcast.

Jane Greenman: Thank you, Helen. That was a beautiful introduction. Thank you so much. Very kind. 

Yes, so you're quite right. I've, I've worked predominantly in the, in the technology sectors, all of my career, which is now. There I say it's spanning up to sort of 30, 30 years. I'll stop, I'll stop counting then I think, yeah.

And yeah, diverse sectors as well, but always sort of technology focused. 

Challenges and Growth in a Male-Dominated Industry

Jane Greenman: Um, predominantly male, male orientated environments, I would say, male dominated, I think, and that's been a deliberate, deliberate choice as well. I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed that, and we can talk more about what that means. And certainly from a sort of learning point of view various roles I've, I've spanned across many, many functions, if you like all other than engineering.

So that in itself as, as [00:03:00] becoming a managing director and the largest team within my organization in itself is engineering. So that in itself was a little bit daunting for me in the beginning, to be fair. Oh 

Helen Wada: great example of stepping out of your comfort zone and. taking on something new and, and actually that's the conversation that I had that we launched last week, actually in the podcast with Captain Emma Henderson, who's a. A pilot and talks about stepping out of your comfort zone and doing things new.

So I think that's, that's a really important role to play. And the other thing that I didn't mention in the intro, but you're also just embarking, almost completed your coaching qualification. Well, so when we talk about being human at work you have a real perspective, not only from your commercial background, but also from your coaching experience as well.

And. I'd love to hear a bit more about that as, 

Jane Greenman: Yeah, absolutely. Yes, for sure.

Helen Wada Video: So

The Importance of Emotional Intelligence and Connection

Helen Wada: So should we kick off the way that I normally kick off these conversations about what does being human at [00:04:00] work mean to you?

Jane Greenman: So, it means being as, as, as much as me as possible. So I think in doing so, that, that's being authentic, as authentic as, as one can be. 

Jane Greenman video: And 

Jane Greenman: not only through the coaching that I've done more recently, but ever since my first interest in emotional intelligence and way back neuro linguistic programming, I had an introduction to in my sort of, I think it was mid to late twenties, which actually really blew me away and shifted my mindset about what could be achieved.

I've always thought about my values and what's important to me and integrity has always been there all, all, all the way through, but more, more latterly, I've realized. It's about connection, and so in having that connection with people and also with, [00:05:00] with advancements in technology, I'm very passionate about technology, which is just as well, given the sector that I'm in, but yeah, that connection with people, what makes them tick and having empathy in, in putting one self in another, another person's position to gain that better understanding. And it just opens one's mind to, to what's going on for other folk. And it creates that sense of sense of serving others. And I think moving into this role as MD has really given me.

the position to be able to do that. I feel very fulfilled in the way that my purpose is I'm here to serve others and, and share the benefit of my experience, but more than that, to actually provide a platform in which to elevate others and give them the opportunity and the platform to grow and so

Building Confidence and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Helen Wada: And it's [00:06:00] wonderful to hear you share that and, and in the position that you're in, you know, able to serve others, able to bring others along with you, under you, together with you, collaboration, if you were to think about your younger self, you know, rewind the clock a little bit, you know, I'm curious, did you always have that confidence to show up as who you were?

What, what things maybe sort of occur to you as. You know, maybe you're not at this stage of your career, you're, you're, you know, early, earlier down the track. And how, how you got that confidence to show up as who you really were and the values that you're, you're living.

Jane Greenman: it's interesting. I think I've always, I've always had energy and the connection and the passion and enthusiasm. And when I reflect back to Particularly in my sort of mid to late twenties, whilst I was [00:07:00] confident, I was also very shy and I know that's

Helen Wada: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Greenman: really, but I, I used to get extremely embarrassed. I used to Feel quite 

Singled out being a young female in a wholly male environment when I, that was when I worked in the space sector and really, really conscious of that at the time.

I used to, Have palpitations before I would even speak in a meeting and, and then I just got on to like the NLP course really taught me a lot. It was only a two day course. I went on and it really changed, changed my outlook about how one can choose your thoughts and what you think is what you feel. So if you're uncomfortable with how you feel, then, then change your thoughts.

And, and the power to be able to do that was, 

Jane Greenman video: was,

Incredible

Jane Greenman: And, and I used to read a lot of books, like one comes to mind, you know, feel the fear and do it [00:08:00] anyway. And I still say that to myself now, you know, just, just power through. And, and so the confidence. Came over time. What I did see, sometimes I would get quite instinctive, intuitive moments.

I would, I would just sense, particularly in negotiations with customers, there was one particular customer I was working with. And I just knew by the way the negotiation was going that ultimately once we got on to contract, they would do whatever it took to hold us to account and they did that.

And it was pretty disastrous. So when I can recall that sense of knowing. 

Jane Greenman video: Because 

Jane Greenman: it's not just about what your customer says, or whom you're negotiating with says, it's not just the words, it's, it's everything around that, even to the extent, I have to look at it holistically, their body language, their behaviours, their [00:09:00] tones, etc.

The Role of Intuition in Leadership

Jane Greenman: Um, so then I think more instinct came over time, trust in my intuition,

Jane Greenman video: knowing

Jane Greenman: that oh my goodness, you were right, Jane, that was like, wow, and that happened a couple of times over sort of a three, three year period. So then my resilience became stronger and over the years, my resilience is, is what's got me stronger and stronger and stronger.

And 

Jane Greenman video: and, 

Jane Greenman: you know, don't get me wrong, even when I moved into this role just over two years ago, there was a bit of me that had imposter syndrome. I think one always goes through that, but when I've been reflecting on that through my more recent coaching that I've been having, I think there's an element of sometimes that can be a good thing.

As long as you're really aware of it and thinking about how it serves you, one is then slightly more humble than you might be.

Jane Greenman video: and,

Jane Greenman: And you're with a new team, so [00:10:00] you're looking to find your feet with them and so on, so, 

Jane Greenman video: yeah, 

Jane Greenman: it, it, it's grown over the years, really.

Helen Wada: It's, it's fascinating to listen to you there. And if you, You know, thinking about some of those points that you made about that, that intuition, that sensing, and that's something that, that I talk a lot about in the coaching that I do. And if I'm honest, you know, I was interested in coaching. I've been coaching 15 years now and you start off and it's kind of the, you know, many people, many of the listeners will heard about grow, you know, what are your goals, what's the reality, what's the opportunity, what are you going to do about it, right?

That's kind of your basic coaching model. And actually that's what I thought it was when you, when you start off and then you're trained and you, and you get that there, but actually, as I developed and completed my advanced diploma a couple of years ago, and actually started to make sense of the sense making, if that makes sense, right?

Helen Wada Video: but

Jane Greenman: yep.

Helen Wada: Recognizing that it's. [00:11:00] Not just words, but it's how we feel is that felt sense. And we have that felt sense, whether at any stage of our career, we could have that felt sense at home. You know, when you're, when you're wound up about your kids, not doing the right things. I know your daughter's a bit older now, but you know, I still get it with my boys.

Have you got everything ready for school and start a school? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. No, where are my shoes, mom? You know? And you feel whether it's often in your gut,

Jane Greenman: Mm 

Helen Wada: you know, There's a thing for, I think for us all to think about is how are we using that data because it is data where we have as many neurons here in our, in our gut as we do in our minds.

Embracing AI and the Future of Work

Helen Wada: And I think for me, as we move through increasing use of AI, we're going to have a technology is going to deliver a lot for us. It's, you know, it's going to deliver the basics. So where are we as humans going to fit in? And I think it's, it's listening to you there and building upon that and talking about, [00:12:00] we need to be more human.

We need to be more human in an AI world to be able to make sense of what is going on. What are other people feeling? What does that mean for your conversation? What does that mean for your teams? What does it mean for your clients? Because it's, it's that connection that you spoke about at the beginning.

How do we connect with others? And how does that lead to good things for ourselves, good things for our businesses at the same time?

Jane Greenman: I

couldn't agree more. I've, I've been even literally over the last two, three months being taken a deeper dive into AI and quantum, which is absolutely blowing my mind.

Jane Greenman video: And,

Jane Greenman: and, and I've

Helen Wada: when you've figured it out, can you let, when you've figured it out, can you let me know?

Jane Greenman: I'm actually getting really, I haven't been this excited about technology since a broadband, which was the launch of that was a project I was fortunate enough to be right at the heart of as well.

So. 

Jane Greenman video: But

Jane Greenman: that AI is coming and [00:13:00] it's coming thick and fast and literally by 2030, we will be in a very, very different world, but. I'm not afraid of that. I'm excited to see it because I, I, my view, maybe I've got rose tinted glasses, but I'm saying great. We will now have more time to be who we want to be and think about what we want to deliver and the engagement that we have in the workplace.

And we all know that commerce and engagement is about relationships. 

Jane Greenman video: You 

Jane Greenman: know, ultimately the, the success of, of opportunities that we create with our partners, our suppliers, our senior stakeholders, relationships at work, family, friends, you know, it's all about relationships and, and AI certainly isn't going to come in and take that away from us anytime soon, who knows touch wood, certainly not in the next sort of 15 years, I would hope.

But I think we have to have faith and provided we do focus on, on [00:14:00] being human, we will, we will have, have that place. Absolutely. We'll hunt on to it.

Helen Wada: And it's, I was talking to somebody yesterday and they're talking about, you know, they were sort of saying it's the kick up the arse. I said, it's the what? And he said, you know, actually, It's the thing that we need to do to, to build in these human workplaces, because you and I can talk about this. 

Creating a Human-Centric Workplace

Helen Wada: I've had many a conversation on the podcast and outside around the importance of being human at work.

I'm passionate about it. You're passionate as are many others. But actually the stats are telling us that, you know, we have many people unhappy at work. We have productivity is, is getting to an all time low, you know, there's, we could talk about, you know, the, the hybrid working, how effective it is.

And I know there's a lot of debate about it at the moment.

What do you think is stopping us

from

really, truly being human at work? We've just talked about what it means. It's about [00:15:00] relationships, about being yourself. It's about living your values and purpose, but we're still here in 2025 with AI coming at us at

a rapid rate saying we still need to have this conversation to help workplaces be more human.

What's getting in the way, Jane?

Jane Greenman: Mm, good question. 

I think, I think it's about 

Jane Greenman video: when, 

Jane Greenman: I guess, really, when, when you, when you look at companies and the performance of companies, it's all about, you know, how one is measured on the stock exchange, which is basically driven by results, driven by finance, and that all drives down to how we are measured from a performance perspective. And so, annual objectives are set each year, you're measured against those predominantly financial.

And perhaps there's, you know, it's, 

Jane Greenman video: it's 

Jane Greenman: whether there is actually that psychological safety in the [00:16:00] space you're in to allow yourself to, to be more human, 

Jane Greenman video: Fear 

Jane Greenman: factor, fear of failure, fear of failing fast. I mean, I think it's dramatically changed it all for the better from where we were. Even 10 years ago, let alone 15,

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Jane Greenman: even the way contracts are written, contracts are written for you will not fail.

You will deliver to this and we will measure your performance, how you go. So then your project is set up to do so. So, There's that fear factor that folk have about not admitting mistakes or, you know, showing well, actually, I was on a learning curve here, you know, so now, although I think we are overcoming those challenges, allowing people to be diverse, acknowledge folk for their diversity and, and the

The, the different thinking [00:17:00] that can be brought to the, to the table when, when one is working on a project.

so, I know, certainly from personal experience, I, I have been ambitious. I do recognize that when, when I look back and I,

I

was consciously always, always, always aware of how I was perceived. Always, it was always on my mind. 

But the difference I've seen, and I will shout out for TALIS especially, the work that has been done with,

Jane Greenman video: really

Jane Greenman: great people in the company to create that safe space for people to feel that they can learn and grow and permission to fail, et cetera, is, is, is what's important.

And those are the challenges that we have to have to overcome. And then coach through, share the learning.

Helen Wada: creating that safe space again, that's a term that we use, we use in coaching many people may not be so [00:18:00] familiar, but, but it is that sort of container of trust. Where people can try, they can fail fast, taking that one step deeper, kind of unpicking it a little bit, as we would say in coaching, what does that actually look like?

So, you know, you're shouting out about the great work that TALIS has done to, to create this kind of psychological space. Which, you know, I'm drawing a box here,

Jane Greenman: Yeah.

Helen Wada: we're talking,

Helen Wada Video: But,

Helen Wada: but for those that aren't familiar with the term,

Helen Wada Video: or

Helen Wada: what does it tangibly mean? Because I think this is one of the challenges with it.

It's like, okay, we can talk about creating a safe space. What does that actually mean in practice for those leading and those on the ground?

Jane Greenman: I think for those, for those that are leading, it's, it's being very conscious as the leader, I consider I seek to be very conscious of [00:19:00] ensuring I am listening, my words, holistically. So that is not just listening to the words that are being said. But making inquiry as to what I'm seeing in respect, in respect of the person that is seeking to share what they're sharing.

Jane Greenman video: And 

Jane Greenman: it's quite interesting, I, I seek to choose questions that, For example, I might just say to someone, so, you know, thank you for sharing all that. That's great. Now can you tell me anything you haven't told me? So it's, I'm giving you permission. Sure, you know, surely that all sounds wonderful. Surely there's something that's not quite gone right.

What challenges have you overcome?

And then I'll get, well, to be quite honest, you know,

we did fail on that, but I did recover that. So,

Jane Greenman video: that,

Jane Greenman: that's one way of giving folk permission to be able to share the mistakes that they're either making or have [00:20:00] made or are concerned about making in the future. Then it's a question, okay, well, we've got so and so and so and so here, how can we help you with that?

So, it's. Almost accepting it's a given that one isn't going to deliver everything right first time. That's why in project plans, we have contingency for goodness sake. So an environment where one says, well, there's your project plan. Deliver it at a hundred percent. I'm gonna hold your risk and conting over here.

Doesn't actually help someone. Then they're like, Oh, well, then how, how am I actually going to have control about where I take a risk and where I don't? So got to empower people to do that. Another is, I think I've especially with colleagues that I've worked with where I've really developed a strong relationship.

Oh, I don't want to get frustrated, Jane.

Jane Greenman video: like,

Jane Greenman: I'm in the room. Come on, come and have a run

Jane Greenman video: And [00:21:00] literally

Jane Greenman: go, come on, come on. I'm here. I'm listening. Have permission. And then just allowing them to go. I really don't feel comfortable saying it. I'm giving you permission. Go for it. What you're saying here stays in these four walls.

And, and that trust and honesty, I really do take pride in how, how folk across the business that I've built my network up over, over the years really do trust me with utter confidence with, with things know that they can be, be themselves. And then if I guess if I see that not taking place elsewhere, I might step in with a, you know, fortunate enough to be with the coaching much more on a much more accredited basis of late that I have confidence in applying those skills and teaching others to do so as well.

Helen Wada: And, and it's, it's, that's the sort of, it's the H in my human and the framework that I work with the human advantages. It's [00:22:00] how you show up as a leader. There's a, there's a part in the program that I run for groups and it's, it's all about how much of yourself do you show. Because there's something about the more that you show, we don't need to know what's an old, but actually people say to me sometimes, why, how can you get that much information from somebody that will, because you present as open as you are sharing there, you're there, you're open, you're giving them.

The psychological safety, you're giving them permission and ultimately you shut up and listen

because it's that whole giving them space to talk, which, which we talk about coaching and you were talking about your, your accreditation earlier, but actually the role of a good code isn't to be talking.

Jane Greenman: I

Helen Wada: It's really about putting your listening hat on and, and reading how they are sensing what's going on and holding the mirror up.

Whether it's to be questions or [00:23:00] challenge or, or whatever else.

Jane Greenman: think that that that is equally applicable when engaging with customers or doing negotiations as well. 

Jane Greenman video: It's it's, 

Jane Greenman: it really is in in particular in negotiations or difficult conversations. Is in, in, you know, things like body language or I don't know, I don't know, I, I, I'm quite an energy person, but really sense in the end, you know, when you can walk into your room, you're like, oh, you can feel it in the room, you know, no one can deny that one can't sense it.

But, you know, being conscious of that, of the energy you bring in, or if I see colleagues, you know, sometimes colleagues might be, oh God, this is going to be, no it's not, we're all just human, come on, let's go with it, let's understand their problem and we'll be fine.

Helen Wada: I I think this is brilliant, Joan, because again, it's, it's part of the, you know, you've talked there about how you go in the room, you know, what [00:24:00] is, what is your level of energy when you show up, right? If you're going into a, an important client conversation, important client meeting, what is it that you're telling yourself about?

The value you bring, who you are, the outcomes that you're looking for, because we can't forget that we're in commercial environments, right? We're not sat having a chat and having a cup of tea. There's a business reason for us being there.

And so how you show up is that H in the human and, and taking that forward.

And then, then the listening bit, the understand others, tell me a bit more about that. How do you then work? So what would you be doing to get under the skin of what's important to those customers? Cause there's, I think there's a lot of listeners that. They do struggle with some of these conversations because they can be daunting.

They can be scary, particularly, you know, when you're only a few years into a senior career.

Jane Greenman video: Well,

Jane Greenman: I think I, I've always naturally done that in any event, you know, all of our brains are wired differently and I, I've got colleagues [00:25:00] that can. Go into a meeting, come out, and write word for word what has been said. I will come out of a meeting, and I will remember the essence of what was said. I mean, clearly, if we make agreements, I'll write those agreements down, make sure we've captured them, and absolutely.

for me, I, when I look back on memories of times in, in those type of environment, I remember what was felt. I'm just more naturally have that. you know, I think, and what I've observed. I mean, one example was we, we, we were going into what I know was going to be a difficult meeting. as we walked in, they were reading from a script.

Jane Greenman video: So

Jane Greenman: you know that that's not what they're saying. That, that telling it yourself is not what is coming from this person. It's coming from what they've actually been asked to share. then we took a break out and I said to my colleagues, no, that's not what they're saying. And they say, Jane, that's [00:26:00] what they said.

I said, I know it's what they said, but that's not what he's saying. And lo and behold, I went back, did a check. I had a little off the record conversation and it's like, yeah, it's right. That's not what he's saying. We have to hear between the lines. And I think. I think it's when you look at someone,

Jane Greenman video: Don't,

Jane Greenman: don't just listen with your ears, listen, listen with your whole being, try to, and even mirroring them, mirroring the body language can, can really help with that.

That has been a powerful tool for me. To, to bring a client from a, a, a point of real, real frustration down and down and down. It was almost felt surreal doing it, but I gradually got them to a place where they were then leaning against the wall like this, because I'd, I'd gotten that and then the tone just, and yeah, so I digress a bit there, but in respective 

Jane Greenman video: outcomes.

Jane Greenman: [00:27:00] I think for me, a good meeting is even if we haven't got to a point where we've reached an agreement, if we've left the meeting, if I've left the meeting with a view that I wholly understand from their perspective, what their challenges are, not what they want to win in the negotiation, but why, why is it important to them, both from a business and a personal perspective, because sometimes it might be, you know, You know, something's at stake for them personally as a result of not achieving what they want.

What are the drivers that are getting them 

Helen Wada: And I think that's super important. And I think that that personal element is one that is, is so often missed. When we talk about building human connection, when we talk about building relationships, What, what's important to them as an individual is that is their career on the line? What's the next role that they want to be heading for?

How does the work that you do support them in that

Jane Greenman: Mm.

Helen Wada: [00:28:00] and what might be going on behind the scenes? Because I think you and me, both others that we work with, everybody's got. Different personal trap, particularly in today's age, whether it's children, elderly parents, or, or health challenges, or, you know, just complex life stuff.

Jane Greenman video: Mm.

Helen Wada: Everybody's got stuff going on these days. I don't think there was any life that is straight for the, you know, the long straight road where nothing happens just doesn't exist quite frankly. And life, life is richer for But for me, it's about recognizing that the people that we're acting With working within business, whether they're within our business or whether they're in our clients or the suppliers or whoever it is a human beings

Jane Greenman: Mm-hmm

Helen Wada: and an understanding, taking time to understand who they are and what's important to them to me is almost first and foremost, before you crack down to the business, you know, you can't talk always about the holidays and the cats and the dogs and the kids and[00:29:00] 

Jane Greenman: Yeah.

Helen Wada: you know, You've got to get some work done, but actually there is something about knowing that personal interest of the people you're engaging with

Jane Greenman: Mm.

Helen Wada: to

Jane Greenman: E Even hobbies

Helen Wada: more

Jane Greenman: you know? Yeah. So, yeah, it's quite, quite interesting. I find. I played netball all my life, and when, when I did that, it was only the females I connected with. Then, then I played hockey for almost 20 years, and, and because that's so similar to football and also men play hockey, that was clearly a, a much better conversation, and of course we were great in the Olympics at one point, so, you So, yeah, but even things like that, you know, understanding people's interests is, is that rapport is really important. And trust, it builds trust. And I think that the trust element is in particular if you have a scenario where if you, if you do promise something for a client, a supplier, whoever you're engaged with, even a stakeholder who deliver [00:30:00] on your promises,

Helen Wada: Yeah.

Jane Greenman: that that's absolutely key, because particularly if it's someone external to your organization and you fail to do that.

You're an ambassador for the company you work for. And if you fail to do that, that will be seen as the, you know, across the piece and the flip side of that, delivering something to them that they know you've gone on above and beyond to achieve that is out of the normal course of what would be expected to go a really long way.

Jane Greenman video: All right.

Helen Wada: It's those sort of, it's the extra mile, isn't it? It's that commitment, it's the transparency, it's the trust, it's, It's being honest,

being honest with yourself, with who you are, who you want to be and, and, and getting that connection.

It's, it's fascinating. 

The Power of Coaching and Mentorship

Helen Wada: And, and your coaching work, you've seen how the coaching is really coming into play, supporting others, supporting the team that you've got as well.

How, how do you bring that into your day to day work? Sort of [00:31:00] the leader is coach.

Jane Greenman video: Oh,

Jane Greenman: so, so much more. I think, you know, I've been mentoring for years and really didn't appreciate what coaching was effectively. And I think I started sort of six years ago and then gradually year on year, I've done more and more. And, and, and this last year has just been great. So enjoyable with what I've learned, 

I would say how, how is what I've brought into the workplaces in the sense that I am much more aware of who I am.

And then as a result of of that much more content with being who I am, which enables other to feel that they're in a, in a, in a good safe space. But also the listening, the active listening that I do is greater

than, than I did prior to really studying on the coaching. The power of [00:32:00] it is, 

Jane Greenman video: is, tremendous. 

Jane Greenman: is really good.

That's, that is one of the key things. Allowing others to grow. It's all about the gift that you give to give others that framework in which you can, you know, I know the answer. I know the solution, you know, and sometimes. I might ask a question to this person and the other person across the table steps in and I just, no, I'm asking them, I know they don't, you know.

so, so it's that, that's quite interesting seeing the things that play there. But it is, it's giving, giving, using the tools to give others the space in which to, to grow. See them put themselves outside of their comfort zone as well. And they know I'm there, door is always open to support should they need to explore anything.

Helen Wada: And it, it's fun. It's empowering others. That's the power of coaching for me. [00:33:00] It's, and I, I honestly wholeheartedly believe, and that's why I'm here. I am writing the book and

empowering others to make grownup decisions for themselves, whether they're your team members, whether you're your client, you might be offering advice, but ultimately none of us grownups really like being told what to do.

My teenagers don't like being told what to do.

And,

and so for me, that power of coaching transcends so much in business that we can really tap into to bring the human side of, of us all to

more.

And it actually isn't easy. You know, you, you've taught me 30s, your career, me 25, that power of listening. Yeah.

I've worked with, with people that, well, yeah, well, I can do that. Of course I listen. Well, do you really?

Jane Greenman video: Mm.

Helen Wada: And it requires us to, to tap into ourselves and who we are. And it starts with self. I'm very much a believer that it starts with self. And if we start with [00:34:00] self, once you notice it in self, You, you then become more aware of it and can appreciate what you need to be in others.

And I think there is a journey on a spectrum that it's, it's very hard to go immediately to what's going on for the other person. But once you can understand it for yourself, particularly that sense, making that feeling you work with it, whether you use journals and we've talked about, you know, using journaling, reviewing conversations, you know, what works, what doesn't work, what are you noticing the more you practice that self discipline to notice what's going on and raising awareness, then actually you can be more aware of others.

And I think that for me is, is one of the key things as we. Move forward and

Jane Greenman: Exactly. And I think just building on that as well is, it, it, It enables you to give folk that autonomy, they then see it's their responsibility to do what they need to do. [00:35:00] So that then drives the accountability through doing so, which makes them feel valued, you know, that they, they know that they're doing something they're fulfilling.

also particularly where you can, you can see that it's, it's stretching them that bit all the time, you know, so. 

Helen Wada: it, it, it's taking that step out the comfort zone, isn't it? It's going back to where we started. It's going back to where we started and how, you know, you, you've transcended your career and you've taken leaps at different points in time and, and moved into new areas. 

Final Thoughts and Reflections

Helen Wada: Um, Jane, we could talk, we could talk forever.

So much wisdom in, in the conversation there, and I really, really appreciate you joining me.

I think it's going to be quite hard, actually, from this conversation for you to pick. I'm going to ask you to pick sort of one top tip. There's one, one or two things that you would offer maybe as advice for the, for the listeners, and then a good coach loves a good question.

So maybe leave us with a question for listeners to reflect on after [00:36:00] they've heard this conversation today.

Jane Greenman video: I, 

Jane Greenman: I think, I think the top tip, I think the holistic listening is, is definitely, I would, I would urge you to take that away and, and just try it. And, and see what comes, listen to what's going on in your body as much as what you're, you're, you're seeing in, in the folk that you are listening to. I would always, also encourage that

Jane Greenman video: that

Jane Greenman: greater awareness of oneself, appreciating the blind spots you may have being kind to yourself in recognizing those. And seeking opportunities to explore how they serve you or otherwise, sometimes those blind spots can be helpful to you. And I think, you know, we're all made up of elements of personalities and sometimes you want to dial those up and dial those down. That awareness, I think, is ultimately, if you're in a position where you're in your [00:37:00] twenties or your and you're seeking, you know, you're, you're seeking to

grow, I would say look within and the more awareness that you have of yourself, that will drive your confidence, your resilience, and also give you the ability to have greater direction in where you're seeking to go.

Helen Wada: Wonderful.

And what about a question,

A question.

for reflection? We like a good question.

Jane Greenman: So 

Jane Greenman video: over 

Jane Greenman: the last couple of years in particular, I have thought about things that do take me out of my comfort zone. Last year, I

Jane Greenman video: I

Jane Greenman: did public speaking. I did a couple of events, which as you know, Helen, I was I had a very, very mixed feelings about doing so. And out of the blue, I was asked not just once, but twice.

So, I, I recognized I needed to come on Jane, step up your comfort zone. You've always thought this is something that you would do. You've got not just one, but [00:38:00] two offers here to do it go forth. So my question would be particularly given that we're in, in January is what are you going to do this year to take yourself out of your comfort zone? That in particular will be something that will drive personal growth or development for you. A real shift in something that you've always wanted to achieve.

Helen Wada: Lovely. Thank you so much. Lots to ponder. I know 2025 is going to be a good year ahead. Thank you for joining me. Wishing you well and I look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you, 

Jane Greenman: you, Helen. Thank you. Bye

Helen Wada: Bye bye.

Jane Greenman: bye. Bye.

[00:39:00] 

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